1
00:00:22,530 --> 00:00:09,100
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

2
00:00:28,780 --> 00:00:25,450
hello and welcome to the skeptics are an

3
00:00:32,019 --> 00:00:28,790
episode number 267 on the second of

4
00:00:34,420 --> 00:00:32,029
December 2013 Richard Saunders with you

5
00:00:36,340 --> 00:00:34,430
from downtown Sydney I'm outside the

6
00:00:39,550 --> 00:00:36,350
State Library where I've come to finish

7
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:39,560
off this week show so he shows running a

8
00:00:44,470 --> 00:00:42,530
little bit late because a report from

9
00:00:46,930 --> 00:00:44,480
dr. Ritchie had to come halfway around

10
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:46,940
the world in fact she's in guitar in the

11
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:49,250
Middle East attending a very important

12
00:00:54,790 --> 00:00:50,810
conference and she'll tell you all about

13
00:00:57,820 --> 00:00:54,800
that coming up very soon anyway what

14
00:00:59,770 --> 00:00:57,830
else do we have on this week's show news

15
00:01:03,340 --> 00:00:59,780
from the Australian skeptics convention

16
00:01:05,259 --> 00:01:03,350
a convention went off very well got off

17
00:01:07,090 --> 00:01:05,269
to a very good start with James Randi

18
00:01:10,210 --> 00:01:07,100
making an appearance on the big screen

19
00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:10,220
live from Florida now what I'm going to

20
00:01:14,859 --> 00:01:11,990
do I'm going to play you James Randi

21
00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:14,869
message to us so that a bit complicated

22
00:01:19,179 --> 00:01:17,630
it's in two parts or it sounds a bit

23
00:01:20,499 --> 00:01:19,189
different because half's recorded

24
00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:20,509
straight off the feed and half has

25
00:01:27,340 --> 00:01:24,310
recorded live these things happen folks

26
00:01:30,219 --> 00:01:27,350
these things happen nevertheless I'll

27
00:01:32,349 --> 00:01:30,229
play a clip of James Randy's address to

28
00:01:35,020 --> 00:01:32,359
our national convention the Australian

29
00:01:37,660 --> 00:01:35,030
skeptics National Convention after that

30
00:01:39,279 --> 00:01:37,670
news of the awards the annual awards we

31
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:39,289
give the Estonian skeptics convention

32
00:01:46,419 --> 00:01:42,530
including skeptic of the year lifetime

33
00:01:49,209 --> 00:01:46,429
memberships the Fred for net price and

34
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:49,219
the bent spoon Awards that's coming up a

35
00:01:54,879 --> 00:01:52,490
bit later on and following that yes it's

36
00:01:56,889 --> 00:01:54,889
dr. Richie reports with news about her

37
00:01:59,199 --> 00:01:56,899
conference in the Middle East talking

38
00:02:02,050 --> 00:01:59,209
about blue-green algae very important

39
00:02:05,830 --> 00:02:02,060
and then we'll play a clip from Lateline

40
00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:05,840
the ABC show late line where dr. Ricci

41
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:07,609
was a guest discussing the fact that the

42
00:02:12,890 --> 00:02:09,810
Australian vaccination network

43
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:12,900
have been ordered to change their name

44
00:02:18,290 --> 00:02:16,170
very good news very good news indeed and

45
00:02:20,870 --> 00:02:18,300
we'll be playing that clip dr. Reggie

46
00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:20,880
will be commenting on that after that

47
00:02:23,870 --> 00:02:22,470
it's a week in science from our good

48
00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:23,880
friends at the Royal Institution of

49
00:02:32,140 --> 00:02:30,060
Australia www are I a USO gu I think I

50
00:02:34,850 --> 00:02:32,150
said the right number of w's there and

51
00:02:37,670 --> 00:02:34,860
following the week in science of dr.

52
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:37,680
Paul Lewis may not may not spooky action

53
00:02:42,259 --> 00:02:40,290
from the convention and those people who

54
00:02:44,449 --> 00:02:42,269
chipped in to help get men out there you

55
00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:44,459
can sit back and enjoy this that a

56
00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:46,620
little bit more I think may now it's

57
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:48,620
going to be speaking to kenton Joshi

58
00:02:56,300 --> 00:02:52,170
about neuroscience conspiracy theories

59
00:02:59,870 --> 00:02:56,310
wind turbines renewable energies and the

60
00:03:02,210 --> 00:02:59,880
perils of online arguments after that

61
00:03:04,789 --> 00:03:02,220
Maynard will chat to some more delegates

62
00:03:07,009 --> 00:03:04,799
and people at the convention and round

63
00:03:09,229 --> 00:03:07,019
off his reports this week with an

64
00:03:11,020 --> 00:03:09,239
interview with Graham Wilson the

65
00:03:15,530 --> 00:03:11,030
researcher who's going to talk about

66
00:03:18,530 --> 00:03:15,540
very famous Australian legend myth man

67
00:03:21,949 --> 00:03:18,540
called Simpson who was at Gallipoli the

68
00:03:24,650 --> 00:03:21,959
world war one campaign who was a

69
00:03:26,539 --> 00:03:24,660
stretcher bearer with a donkey anyway

70
00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:26,549
lots of myths and legends have grown up

71
00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:28,950
around this man so Graham Wilson will be

72
00:03:34,099 --> 00:03:31,920
discussing that Oh as the traffic roars

73
00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:34,109
down Macquarie Street where I am at the

74
00:03:39,259 --> 00:03:35,760
moment I'm going to run back inside the

75
00:03:41,509 --> 00:03:39,269
library probably grab an iced cappuccino

76
00:04:04,460 --> 00:03:41,519
on the way and finish off this week's

77
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:07,650
greetings I can't tell you how much I

78
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:09,970
like to be with you all all you giddy

79
00:04:14,460 --> 00:04:12,730
bunch in Canberra right now I've always

80
00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:14,470
taken great joy in my visits to

81
00:04:18,330 --> 00:04:16,420
Australia and I feel that I have a

82
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:18,340
strong connection to all of my friends

83
00:04:24,180 --> 00:04:22,570
down under and although dick smith and

84
00:04:26,610 --> 00:04:24,190
Barry Williams won't be among you at

85
00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:26,620
this conference I believe I'm picking up

86
00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:29,200
their very strong vibrations from

87
00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:32,110
somewhere I understand that this year

88
00:04:36,870 --> 00:04:34,300
you're concentrating on conspiracy

89
00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:36,880
theories that's a favorite subject with

90
00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:39,670
me and I should mention that chapter 25

91
00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:42,160
titled the whole world's out to get me

92
00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:44,680
of my forthcoming eleventh book a

93
00:04:50,250 --> 00:04:47,290
magician in the laboratory will deal

94
00:04:52,260 --> 00:04:50,260
with this very bizarre matter at 85

95
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:52,270
years of age now I have managed to stay

96
00:04:57,450 --> 00:04:54,250
around though with a certain amount of

97
00:04:59,430 --> 00:04:57,460
difficulty I certainly just recovered

98
00:05:01,620 --> 00:04:59,440
from a medical crisis about which you

99
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:01,630
need not know but I assure you that I

100
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:03,970
did it without recourse to aroma therapy

101
00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:07,090
acupuncture homeopathy a power balance

102
00:05:12,330 --> 00:05:09,790
bracelet or even a bit of chatty looks

103
00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:12,340
we skeptics all know that countless

104
00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:14,590
citizens of both our countries resort to

105
00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:16,900
useless and dangerous means to solve

106
00:05:23,070 --> 00:05:20,380
their problems daily such conferences as

107
00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:23,080
I now address our very effective means

108
00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:25,030
to fight these negative elements in our

109
00:05:31,650 --> 00:05:28,230
culture while you're here I urge you

110
00:05:34,110 --> 00:05:31,660
make new friends ask questions share

111
00:05:36,210 --> 00:05:34,120
your knowledge and experience of those

112
00:05:40,530 --> 00:05:36,220
you meet and it will make you a better

113
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:40,540
thinker yes it can work for you I hope

114
00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:42,010
that your conference is a great success

115
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:44,530
that all attendees will be able to

116
00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:47,170
garner fresh hope and ambition from

117
00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:49,600
their participation and I ask that you

118
00:05:54,570 --> 00:05:51,760
accept my assurance that rationality and

119
00:05:57,450 --> 00:05:54,580
plain common sense are more and more in

120
00:06:01,500 --> 00:05:57,460
evidence day by day both here in the USA

121
00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:01,510
and on your exciting continent please

122
00:06:06,630 --> 00:06:04,060
learn and celebrate from having been in

123
00:06:09,060 --> 00:06:06,640
Canberra for this event I dearly wish

124
00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:09,070
that I could also be there but if I

125
00:06:14,130 --> 00:06:10,960
don't receive an invitation to invade

126
00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:14,140
your Shores in 20 to 40 I'll be very

127
00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:16,510
disappointed and you know what that can

128
00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:19,630
mean I'm sure that most of you will

129
00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:21,730
share with me the water in basement we

130
00:06:26,610 --> 00:06:24,030
are now able to communicate in this back

131
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:26,620
easily transmitting and greeting over

132
00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:32,710
the 9470 two miles that's enough 245 20

133
00:06:37,950 --> 00:06:35,800
meters or the wrong you're into

134
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:37,960
separatism but it's not the distance

135
00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:40,090
between us that's important it's the

136
00:06:46,020 --> 00:06:43,900
camaraderie enjoy that we all share here

137
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:46,030
in the USA the James Randi Educational

138
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:48,490
Foundation holds an annual conference

139
00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:51,370
called the amazing beating and they've

140
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:53,620
always had a good representation let's

141
00:06:58,020 --> 00:06:56,410
try it on those occasions something I

142
00:07:02,070 --> 00:06:58,030
must join it something that arrived in

143
00:07:04,650 --> 00:07:02,080
the mail as two days ago I find this

144
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:04,660
very interesting it's from the Neptune

145
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:08,650
Society now left in society to know is

146
00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:12,010
an organization that offers to to

147
00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:14,230
cremate you and spread your ashes at sea

148
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:21,810
a little worried put something or I see

149
00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:23,530
other part of the outlook I'm sure you

150
00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:27,300
have read evinces free pre-made

151
00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:33,670
cremation girls inspired I don't know

152
00:07:41,430 --> 00:07:36,910
the details traffic and I gotta go to

153
00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:41,440
volunteer my body mr. Curtis I am told

154
00:07:49,610 --> 00:07:44,860
that perhaps they might have some

155
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:53,070
brandy dawa/chris who's equipped for a

156
00:08:00,510 --> 00:07:57,490
givenchy me I may actually a adult

157
00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:00,520
Charles Darwin but I had trimmed and a

158
00:08:14,490 --> 00:08:12,340
few things I have a highlight of every

159
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:14,500
Australian skeptics national convention

160
00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:17,650
are the awards and this year the awards

161
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:20,200
were as follows skeptic of the year was

162
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:22,890
awarded to professor Simon Chapman

163
00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:25,810
professor Chapman from the University of

164
00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:28,090
New South Wales has undertaken extensive

165
00:08:33,510 --> 00:08:30,910
research into the media's communication

166
00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:33,520
of public health issues and demonstrated

167
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:35,110
great concern through his efforts to

168
00:08:39,510 --> 00:08:37,090
improve the public understanding of

169
00:08:41,719 --> 00:08:39,520
important issues including tobacco

170
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:41,729
control alcohol swine flu

171
00:08:48,410 --> 00:08:44,850
anti-vaccination beliefs and more

172
00:08:52,530 --> 00:08:48,420
congratulations professor Simon Chapman

173
00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:52,540
the Fred Thor net award went to Sonya

174
00:08:58,530 --> 00:08:55,510
Pemberton the producer of the

175
00:09:01,260 --> 00:08:58,540
documentary jabbed all about the pros

176
00:09:04,890 --> 00:09:01,270
and cons of vaccinations from a

177
00:09:07,050 --> 00:09:04,900
realistic scientific point of view life

178
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:07,060
memberships went to Colin groves the

179
00:09:12,050 --> 00:09:09,730
longtime Canberra skeptic and the health

180
00:09:15,540 --> 00:09:12,060
campaigner dr. ken harvey

181
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:15,550
congratulations to the wall and now a

182
00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:18,010
recording of the awarding of the bent

183
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:21,520
spoon prize at the dinner and it was a

184
00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:23,170
doctor who themed in a great fun there

185
00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:25,540
were Daleks everywhere where I was very

186
00:09:37,830 --> 00:09:26,830
pleased to award

187
00:09:40,890 --> 00:09:37,840
this he is bent spoon present the annual

188
00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:40,900
fest in Ward F be walking around group

189
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:45,220
to your pleasure by dr. preciosa the

190
00:09:51,510 --> 00:09:48,250
woman after the loop there comes from

191
00:09:55,380 --> 00:09:51,520
Noah's Ark so we told the spoon was made

192
00:09:58,920 --> 00:09:55,390
by side up so we're told past winners of

193
00:10:01,920 --> 00:09:58,930
this least sword culture of war komatsu

194
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:01,930
past winners where the free energy not

195
00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:05,290
be aloof head five years ago Jeff maheen

196
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:08,200
who said that she would live on air and

197
00:10:15,660 --> 00:10:13,600
water alone Gerald Dorrie from the

198
00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:15,670
Australian vaccination Edward one of the

199
00:10:20,890 --> 00:10:18,400
external what if you years ago I don't

200
00:10:25,190 --> 00:10:20,900
think that's what employers

201
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:25,200
the ABC ABC television is what you want

202
00:10:30,980 --> 00:10:29,010
three times putting a dismal program

203
00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:30,990
second of thinking about alternative

204
00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:34,110
medicine for the new inventors program

205
00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:36,420
which are critically showcase the hood

206
00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:40,710
cleaning device based on houses and for

207
00:10:47,170 --> 00:10:43,310
showing a program called the psyche

208
00:10:50,180 --> 00:10:47,180
investigators will also had people like

209
00:10:52,460 --> 00:10:50,190
the friendship feel from homeopathy plus

210
00:10:54,140 --> 00:10:52,470
with the best to the wood the company

211
00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:54,150
called gentle he'll who are promoting

212
00:11:00,740 --> 00:10:56,520
healthy package of observations the

213
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:00,750
needle ep the plot of energy fuel total

214
00:11:06,130 --> 00:11:03,090
right this year we had an interesting

215
00:11:10,250 --> 00:11:06,140
through the nomination so it's quite

216
00:11:12,020 --> 00:11:10,260
interesting somewhat when I must go to

217
00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:12,030
the nominations as though coming in and

218
00:11:26,490 --> 00:11:18,150
saw Tony Abbott's language and according

219
00:11:33,369 --> 00:11:29,889
we also have various hankie flew right

220
00:11:34,689 --> 00:11:33,379
councils google gave in children did

221
00:11:37,869 --> 00:11:34,699
anyone see the news the other night

222
00:11:39,879 --> 00:11:37,879
Byron Shire Council's photo to hold

223
00:11:44,499 --> 00:11:39,889
hands and not have the right in their

224
00:11:47,259 --> 00:11:44,509
water supply right think television ABC

225
00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:47,269
I've got a look at again catalyst show

226
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:52,550
which is a great the recent episode of

227
00:12:00,249 --> 00:11:56,240
two part episode about done electro hi

228
00:12:02,619 --> 00:12:00,259
Albert step young Monte Hollywood every

229
00:12:05,499 --> 00:12:02,629
we thought someone who is mentioned

230
00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:05,509
today I think sarah live from the world

231
00:12:12,189 --> 00:12:09,350
war foundation and we'd turbine in the

232
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:12,199
end of the most boys doing a trolley

233
00:12:19,629 --> 00:12:14,930
amongst various committees to Poznan

234
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:19,639
missing I'm sort of the please little

235
00:12:26,319 --> 00:12:21,410
quiet pleased to announce red spoon

236
00:12:28,780 --> 00:12:26,329
women however the joint winners join

237
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:28,790
with the chiropractor's association of

238
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:31,279
australia and the chiropractic board of

239
00:12:35,530 --> 00:12:33,110
australia joint witness for the ten

240
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:35,540
thousand fifty the space gives me his

241
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:45,970
the CAA is the largest body of

242
00:12:50,650 --> 00:12:48,050
professional chiropractors in australia

243
00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:50,660
and the cba the board is the body that

244
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:52,670
regulates industry by developing

245
00:12:58,210 --> 00:12:56,390
standards codes and guidelines but 12

246
00:13:00,400 --> 00:12:58,220
other bodies make statements that

247
00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:00,410
discourage or prohibit certain unfounded

248
00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:02,960
claims about their magazine to be on the

249
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:04,760
wide range of health positions and

250
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:07,370
chiropractors and supposedly Street many

251
00:13:11,770 --> 00:13:09,890
practitioners still continue to state

252
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:11,780
they can treat such conditions as asthma

253
00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:33,440
ADHD bed wing and the ear infection hey

254
00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:35,300
this is jay novela from the skeptics

255
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:37,280
guide to the universe podcast did you

256
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:38,480
know that there are thousands of

257
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:40,310
skeptical reports interviews and

258
00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:42,050
investigations going back to nineteen

259
00:13:47,980 --> 00:13:44,750
eighty one free to download just visit w

260
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:47,990
WC empathic coa you click the

261
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:49,910
publications link and enjoy almost every

262
00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:51,890
back issue of the skeptic the journal

263
00:13:55,390 --> 00:13:53,840
from australian skeptics you can also

264
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:55,400
subscribe online and get the latest

265
00:13:59,710 --> 00:13:57,680
digital or hard copy of this the world's

266
00:14:03,370 --> 00:13:59,720
second oldest skeptical magazine that's

267
00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:03,380
ww skeptics com au or just google

268
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:17,269
now it's time for dr. Richie reports

269
00:14:24,379 --> 00:14:22,170
with dr. Rachel Dunlop powerlessness and

270
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:24,389
welcome to this week's special edition

271
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:27,180
of dr. Richie reports coming to you from

272
00:14:33,019 --> 00:14:30,540
the city of Doha in Qatar in the Middle

273
00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:33,029
East and i'm currently sitting in my

274
00:14:38,449 --> 00:14:35,430
hotel room on the ninth floor looking

275
00:14:40,999 --> 00:14:38,459
out across the city of doha it's about

276
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:41,009
three thirty in the afternoon and it is

277
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:43,920
a sunday here but sunday is the first

278
00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:46,649
day of the working week in doha so the

279
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:48,569
traffic is quite heavy there are lots of

280
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:50,370
people out and about and it's very busy

281
00:14:57,769 --> 00:14:54,720
now i'm in qatar in doha specifically

282
00:15:00,679 --> 00:14:57,779
for a conference about toxins in desert

283
00:15:03,259 --> 00:15:00,689
environments and this work stems from

284
00:15:05,929 --> 00:15:03,269
the work i do back in Sydney which is

285
00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:05,939
looking at a toxin found in blue green

286
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:08,670
algae which regular listeners have heard

287
00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:10,800
about many times before so i won't bore

288
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,740
you but the reason i'm in the desert

289
00:15:18,980 --> 00:15:15,839
this week is because there is also a

290
00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:18,990
link between the toxin in blue green

291
00:15:24,590 --> 00:15:22,529
algae that we've discussed before and an

292
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:24,600
increased incidence of ALS or motor

293
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:26,790
neurone disease in soldiers that

294
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:30,079
returned from the Gulf War in 1991 1992

295
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:32,970
now in Doha itself there is a very large

296
00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:35,730
military base in the country and this

297
00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:37,350
was where the American soldiers were

298
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:39,870
based when they flew into kuwait during

299
00:15:45,319 --> 00:15:43,740
the operation sandstorm that people may

300
00:15:48,980 --> 00:15:45,329
remember lasted for a very short period

301
00:15:52,189 --> 00:15:48,990
of time about six months so the funny

302
00:15:54,199 --> 00:15:52,199
thing about coming into Doha is that you

303
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:54,209
drive into the Middle East it's what you

304
00:16:00,199 --> 00:15:58,079
would expect it's very dusty but then

305
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:00,209
every so often you'll see a Burger King

306
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:05,339
a Chili's a Wendy's American chains fast

307
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:08,189
food chains have popped up here because

308
00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:10,110
they were supporting or feeding the

309
00:16:13,129 --> 00:16:11,550
soldiers that were in the military base

310
00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:13,139
here and in fact the military base is

311
00:16:17,780 --> 00:16:15,660
still here but one of the things that

312
00:16:20,449 --> 00:16:17,790
has been noted and it's been published

313
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:20,459
twice now is that these soldiers had a

314
00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:22,230
higher incidence of motor neurone

315
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:24,929
disease now I'm here because a colleague

316
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:26,910
of mine has been sampling the desert

317
00:16:30,020 --> 00:16:27,510
crusts

318
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:30,030
guitar and what she has ascertained is

319
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:32,040
that the desert crusts also contained

320
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:34,530
blue-green algae and you guessed it in

321
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:38,370
this algae is this toxin BMAA now it may

322
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:41,100
surprise you to know that algae can grow

323
00:16:46,430 --> 00:16:43,530
in the desert but remember Sarah new

324
00:16:49,310 --> 00:16:46,440
bacteria as a species is about 3.5

325
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,320
billion years old so it's adapted to

326
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:52,320
grow just about everywhere last time i

327
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:54,870
was here in February this year we

328
00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:56,910
actually went out to the desert and we

329
00:17:01,280 --> 00:16:58,890
watered the crust of the desert and we

330
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:01,290
waited and about five minutes later it

331
00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:05,490
began to turn green as the algae woke up

332
00:17:11,090 --> 00:17:07,350
from its hibernation and began to

333
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:11,100
photosynthesize and turn the green color

334
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:14,310
which is associated with it but that's

335
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:16,020
actually not what I was going to talk to

336
00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:19,530
you about today this week I'm going to

337
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:22,400
play a report that I was in on Monday on

338
00:17:28,550 --> 00:17:25,410
abc-tv's television program called late

339
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:28,560
line and this was in response to the

340
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:30,810
decision that was handed down against

341
00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:32,910
the Australian vaccination network last

342
00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:37,140
week now this concerns the order put

343
00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:39,480
forth by the administrative decisions

344
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,390
tribunal that the avn had to change

345
00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:44,880
their name now this was originally put

346
00:17:49,550 --> 00:17:47,220
down several months ago but the avian

347
00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:49,560
appealed the decision and the appeal was

348
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:52,140
heard last Monday in Sydney now the

349
00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:54,630
decision was upheld and the judge said

350
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,360
that the avian will have to go forth and

351
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:00,000
change its name and the reason the judge

352
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:02,730
gave for that was because they deemed

353
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:05,340
that the avians name was a misleading

354
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:07,050
when you looked at actually what they

355
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:10,710
did as an organization now I've since

356
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:13,170
seen some commentary from people around

357
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:15,510
this issue saying well if that's the

358
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:17,910
case then why doesn't the cancer council

359
00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:19,710
have to change their name well in fact

360
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:21,960
emerald dory said that she said it

361
00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:24,570
infers that they like cancer which i

362
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:27,270
think is a little bit tenuous and maybe

363
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,270
drawing a slightly long bow but the

364
00:18:34,340 --> 00:18:32,400
issue here is specifically because the

365
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:34,350
Australian vaccination Network ears and

366
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:37,170
incorporated association now this is a

367
00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:39,210
whole lot of official sounding jargon

368
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,950
but basically what it means is

369
00:18:45,470 --> 00:18:42,960
there are rules that apply for these

370
00:18:47,810 --> 00:18:45,480
kind of organizations and one of those

371
00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:47,820
rules is that your name has to

372
00:18:53,090 --> 00:18:49,590
accurately represent what your

373
00:18:55,130 --> 00:18:53,100
activities are and because the avn isn't

374
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:55,140
incorporated association and they

375
00:18:59,540 --> 00:18:56,970
haven't abided by this part of the rule

376
00:19:02,120 --> 00:18:59,550
the judge can actually say to them you

377
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:02,130
have to change your name now of course

378
00:19:07,610 --> 00:19:04,710
they have a couple of options here they

379
00:19:08,990 --> 00:19:07,620
can opt to not change their name even

380
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:09,000
though the judge has ordered them to do

381
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:11,730
that however the penalties for that

382
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:13,140
since they are an incorporated

383
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:15,750
association are that they can actually

384
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:18,510
be closed down as you'll hear more in

385
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:20,730
the report from late line tonight

386
00:19:25,550 --> 00:19:23,130
they're not happy about this obviously

387
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:25,560
so before we cross to that audio I just

388
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:27,630
want to make the point that this habit

389
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:30,960
of anti vax organizations adopting names

390
00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:33,240
that don't sound like what they actually

391
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:35,430
do is used by most of these

392
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:38,250
organizations across the world when you

393
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:40,170
look at the vaccine information network

394
00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:42,150
in New Zealand when you look at the

395
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:44,040
vaccine information service in

396
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:46,860
Queensland when you look at the ones in

397
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,050
America none of them use names that

398
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:51,660
accurately reflect what they do however

399
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,510
what is unique about this is we are the

400
00:20:00,350 --> 00:19:57,120
first people in the world in Australia

401
00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:00,360
to force this anti-vaccination network

402
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:02,100
to change their name to something that

403
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:03,690
more accurately reflects what they do

404
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:06,450
and for this I think everyone who worked

405
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:08,160
on this should be congratulated because

406
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:13,380
this is a big win Australia's most

407
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:16,050
prominent anti-vaccination organization

408
00:20:20,530 --> 00:20:18,810
has been ordered to change its name in a

409
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:20,540
landmark ruling by the New South Wales

410
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:23,340
administrative decisions tribunal the

411
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:24,720
Department of Fair Trading had already

412
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:26,730
declared the Australian vaccination

413
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:29,130
networks name was misleading given the

414
00:20:33,490 --> 00:20:31,710
organization stance against vaccination

415
00:20:36,110 --> 00:20:33,500
but the group had appealed that decision

416
00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:36,120
the tribunal upheld the ruling which

417
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:38,430
will force the avn to now come up with a

418
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:40,890
new name that name must be approved by

419
00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:42,930
the Fair Trading Minister Steve Canaan

420
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,200
reports the Australian vaccination

421
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:48,720
network needs to find a new name the

422
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:50,850
administrative decisions tribunal says

423
00:20:54,590 --> 00:20:53,280
its name has been misleading people into

424
00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:54,600
thinking the organisation

425
00:20:59,470 --> 00:20:57,240
provides comprehensive information about

426
00:21:02,240 --> 00:20:59,480
vaccinations obviously i'm very pleased

427
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:02,250
because we've been fighting against the

428
00:21:06,830 --> 00:21:04,110
misinformation perpetuated by the avian

429
00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:06,840
for many years now since 2009 and this

430
00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:08,280
is a big win for public health in New

431
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:10,590
South Wales and also for for parents and

432
00:21:14,930 --> 00:21:12,210
for babies who are affected by

433
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:14,940
vaccine-preventable diseases dr. rachel

434
00:21:19,159 --> 00:21:17,100
Dunlop is a postdoctoral researcher at

435
00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:19,169
the university of technology sydney and

436
00:21:24,529 --> 00:21:22,230
a member of stop the avian it was taken

437
00:21:26,210 --> 00:21:24,539
to the adt because the name australian

438
00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:26,220
vaccination network sounds fairly

439
00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:28,220
innocuous it sounds like they might be

440
00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:30,840
providing reliable information about

441
00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:32,520
vaccinations in fact they're not they're

442
00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:34,860
purely anti-vaccination in a previous

443
00:21:38,899 --> 00:21:36,750
interview with lateline avian

444
00:21:40,669 --> 00:21:38,909
spokeswoman they're all Dory admitted

445
00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:40,679
her website did not provide information

446
00:21:46,299 --> 00:21:43,740
that was in favor of vaccination our

447
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:46,309
position is to provide information that

448
00:21:50,810 --> 00:21:49,049
balances the information that parents

449
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:50,820
get from their doctors and from the

450
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:53,460
government we have never said that we

451
00:21:58,070 --> 00:21:55,380
provide both sides of the story we don't

452
00:21:59,720 --> 00:21:58,080
in response to today's decision Meryl

453
00:22:02,840 --> 00:21:59,730
Dory claims she was a victim of hate

454
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:02,850
groups and vested interests many of

455
00:22:06,830 --> 00:22:04,650
those people either work in the

456
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:06,840
pharmaceutical industry or work for the

457
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:09,090
pharmaceutical industry and it is

458
00:22:15,740 --> 00:22:12,169
apparent that some of these people are

459
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:15,750
quite close with certain members of the

460
00:22:20,750 --> 00:22:17,700
New South Wales Parliament and of our

461
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:20,760
government so you know you can call it a

462
00:22:25,940 --> 00:22:23,580
conspiracy theory but I say that there

463
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,950
is evidence Meryl Dory is a supporter of

464
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,720
the discredited british researcher

465
00:22:31,610 --> 00:22:30,000
Andrew Wakefield the former doctor

466
00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:31,620
claimed there was a link between autism

467
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,950
and the measles mumps rubella vaccine he

468
00:22:38,750 --> 00:22:36,720
was subsequently struck off the medical

469
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:38,760
register after being found guilty of

470
00:22:43,220 --> 00:22:40,710
serious professional misconduct and

471
00:22:46,039 --> 00:22:43,230
acting dishonestly and irresponsibly in

472
00:22:47,659 --> 00:22:46,049
his published research now the avian has

473
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:47,669
to decide whether they will accept the

474
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:49,890
decision of the administrative decisions

475
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:52,559
tribunal if the avian decides not to

476
00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:53,730
change the name if they refuse to change

477
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,070
their name that the administrative

478
00:23:00,110 --> 00:22:57,840
decisions tribunal can actually sees

479
00:23:02,539 --> 00:23:00,120
their assets and close them down Meryl

480
00:23:05,030 --> 00:23:02,549
Dory says the ABN has yet to decide what

481
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,040
they'll do next we don't know i mean

482
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:07,440
this decision only came out today we

483
00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:08,130
have to go to

484
00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:10,440
our members and speak with them we may

485
00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:12,300
not have heard the last word from the

486
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:16,590
avian Steve Canaan Lateline so from Doha

487
00:23:30,820 --> 00:23:28,810
hey fellow skeptics I'm Trent's the

488
00:23:33,129 --> 00:23:30,830
co-host of a podcast called seeds of

489
00:23:44,019 --> 00:23:33,139
doubt and creative a new project called

490
00:23:45,940 --> 00:23:44,029
drop box Dropbox is dedicated to

491
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:45,950
providing new music for your radio show

492
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:48,559
or podcast and to help support your

493
00:23:52,749 --> 00:23:51,049
cause through the sound waves the song

494
00:23:54,849 --> 00:23:52,759
you're listening to is called keep

495
00:24:05,549 --> 00:23:54,859
looking up and can be heard on the

496
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:08,320
they need some new music check me out

497
00:24:25,210 --> 00:24:12,850
facebook.com slash Dropbox that's gr 0 p

498
00:24:27,399 --> 00:24:25,220
fo x welcome to awaken science from our

499
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,409
isles bringing you the size news you

500
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:30,080
need to know this week in science we saw

501
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:33,200
stealthy sea horses copying competitors

502
00:24:43,150 --> 00:24:36,110
and anticipating pain

503
00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:43,160
a novel method has been developed that

504
00:24:47,770 --> 00:24:44,750
allows a wheelchair to be controlled

505
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:47,780
with just the flick of a tongue it uses

506
00:24:51,850 --> 00:24:49,970
a small tongue ring which alters the

507
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:51,860
magnetic field around the users mouth

508
00:24:55,990 --> 00:24:54,049
whenever they move it changes in the

509
00:24:58,120 --> 00:24:56,000
magnetic field are picked up by sensors

510
00:25:00,150 --> 00:24:58,130
in a headset allowing the tongue

511
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:00,160
commands to be sent to various devices

512
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:03,140
users including people paralyzed from

513
00:25:07,690 --> 00:25:05,510
the neck down took just 30 minutes to

514
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:07,700
gain control of the system using their

515
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:10,010
tongue to play video games drive a

516
00:25:16,539 --> 00:25:11,510
wheelchair through an obstacle course

517
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:16,549
and dial phone numbers they're hardly

518
00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:18,890
the thoroughbreds of the ocean but now

519
00:25:24,370 --> 00:25:20,900
we know how sea horses approach their

520
00:25:27,159 --> 00:25:24,380
prey with stealth the notoriously slow

521
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:27,169
swimmers hunt prey which normally evade

522
00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:29,450
predators by detecting the slightest

523
00:25:34,150 --> 00:25:31,940
disturbance in the water sea horses have

524
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:34,160
a spring-like neck which allows them to

525
00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:36,530
suddenly launched at prey but they still

526
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,360
need to get close enough to mount this

527
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:41,120
attack researchers found that the unique

528
00:25:46,030 --> 00:25:43,610
shape of the sea horse head particularly

529
00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:46,040
their snout allows them to move through

530
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:47,809
the water with extremely little

531
00:25:52,659 --> 00:25:50,210
disturbance meaning that prey aren't

532
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:52,669
aware of their presence until it's too

533
00:25:58,210 --> 00:25:55,010
late you're listening to a week in

534
00:26:02,560 --> 00:25:58,220
science from our iOS are now four sides

535
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:02,570
headlines in 30 seconds the maximum dose

536
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:04,570
of many dissolvable medicines including

537
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:07,490
paracetamol contain more salt than our

538
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:09,770
recommended daily intake the physical

539
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:11,690
structure of a dragonfly's wing has

540
00:26:16,659 --> 00:26:14,510
inspired a new antibacterial surface

541
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:16,669
made of black silicon people

542
00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:18,890
instinctively copy others in competitive

543
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:21,230
situations even when it results in a

544
00:26:25,870 --> 00:26:23,140
worse performance and the dread of

545
00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:25,880
anticipating pain may actually exceed

546
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:28,520
the pain itself so you may be better off

547
00:26:33,610 --> 00:26:31,760
just getting it over and done with with

548
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:33,620
just a few weeks left to Christmas we

549
00:26:38,230 --> 00:26:35,450
have the perfect present for the science

550
00:26:40,299 --> 00:26:38,240
fan in your life up until december

551
00:26:42,669 --> 00:26:40,309
twenty you can buy an our isles

552
00:26:45,010 --> 00:26:42,679
membership and get a gift membership for

553
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:45,020
free there are lots of benefits to

554
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:47,570
joining our community including free or

555
00:26:51,940 --> 00:26:49,730
discounted tickets to events

556
00:26:55,270 --> 00:26:51,950
digital subscription to cosmos magazine

557
00:26:57,610 --> 00:26:55,280
and more go to the get involved section

558
00:27:00,280 --> 00:26:57,620
of the our isles website for details

559
00:27:14,140 --> 00:27:00,290
that's it for this a week in science so

560
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:14,150
i'll catch you next week in a world

561
00:27:28,350 --> 00:27:24,140
your messages are a seat for beyond the

562
00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:32,039
and reason is sidelined for magical

563
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:40,390
only three men stand between the truth

564
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:43,490
what date is it seven eight several

565
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:45,210
thing this is impressive it's been a

566
00:27:48,670 --> 00:27:46,650
system present they're not their

567
00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:48,680
photographs of Chinese anthem it's not

568
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:51,870
we are not well received good god we're

569
00:27:55,610 --> 00:27:53,700
fully don't discuss cryptozoology on the

570
00:27:57,650 --> 00:27:55,620
show very often because we don't know

571
00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:57,660
anything about how the truth the price

572
00:28:01,370 --> 00:27:59,460
gets lower and lower and lower and then

573
00:28:05,630 --> 00:28:01,380
he hits a ceiling it's a ceiling for the

574
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:05,640
room below for skeptic to the K for the

575
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:07,530
mostest hi skeptics society find us on

576
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:16,070
iTunes or you know don't here's main art

577
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:21,600
spooky action at the distance

578
00:28:26,670 --> 00:28:25,090
we here in the green room of the CSIRO

579
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,680
and it's called the green room because

580
00:28:30,690 --> 00:28:28,480
my denim is made from completely one

581
00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:30,700
hundred percent renewable pants I'm here

582
00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:32,590
with the man who has been talking wind

583
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:35,830
to me watch an answer catan Joshi well

584
00:28:39,270 --> 00:28:38,170
look I you have been telling me some

585
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:39,280
stuff I didn't even know you've been

586
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:41,050
getting to the bottom of some great

587
00:28:44,550 --> 00:28:42,370
conspiracies here and I know you're got

588
00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:44,560
to talk coming up this afternoon so I'm

589
00:28:48,210 --> 00:28:47,320
quite nervous yes and why is that guy

590
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:48,220
I've got you seem to have everything

591
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:50,410
worked out on your laptop there is it is

592
00:28:55,290 --> 00:28:52,390
not not really big on giving conspiracy

593
00:28:57,060 --> 00:28:55,300
talks is that it um no I i love i love

594
00:28:59,520 --> 00:28:57,070
talking it's just an irrational fear

595
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:59,530
that somehow during my talk everything

596
00:29:03,570 --> 00:29:01,120
is going to go completely wrong at one

597
00:29:04,980 --> 00:29:03,580
point for no reason whatsoever I guess

598
00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:04,990
we could I guess we could equate it to

599
00:29:08,910 --> 00:29:07,000
an exam when you finish with some extra

600
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:08,920
time and you're very tempted to go back

601
00:29:13,230 --> 00:29:10,690
and change answers that are probably

602
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:13,240
correct yes no it's precisely the same

603
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:15,310
thing so I'm going to go perhaps go

604
00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:17,050
through my talk and change words around

605
00:29:22,290 --> 00:29:19,480
and user microsoft word synonym feature

606
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,300
okay it just it just to appease my

607
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:24,880
irrational nervousness okay um what took

608
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:26,470
a bit um try try and put the word

609
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:28,390
eponymous in there I don't know what on

610
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:30,130
me it's used a lot of music I just say

611
00:29:34,170 --> 00:29:32,110
oh that that's very eponymous and people

612
00:29:36,330 --> 00:29:34,180
normally stop talking to me I don't know

613
00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:36,340
what it means either but I promise and

614
00:29:39,660 --> 00:29:37,870
neither do any of the bloody reviewers

615
00:29:43,470 --> 00:29:39,670
in the enemy they use it oh that's their

616
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:43,480
eponymous album I'll put eponymous in

617
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,650
there and I'll make sure it's in the

618
00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:46,720
lease logical spot possible cool now

619
00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:49,300
you're going to talk about we looked at

620
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:51,880
the A to Z of conspiracy theories there

621
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:53,770
to open here I'm on board Muslim

622
00:29:57,210 --> 00:29:55,090
basically pretty much that was just like

623
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:57,220
a truth lecture I just saw there at one

624
00:29:59,790 --> 00:29:58,570
of the ones that you think they left out

625
00:30:03,180 --> 00:29:59,800
there should have been a bit more time

626
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:03,190
spent on um I think conspiracy theories

627
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:05,620
around climate change particularly

628
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:08,140
interesting of course I like the wind

629
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:09,610
turbine conspiracy theories but I would

630
00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:12,130
say that with regards to climate changes

631
00:30:17,130 --> 00:30:13,870
a lot of conspiracy theories about

632
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:17,140
scientists faking research and hiding

633
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:19,330
emails and probably recall the

634
00:30:23,310 --> 00:30:22,000
Climategate sing which became the gate

635
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:23,320
to the gate to the climate game yeah

636
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,600
it'd be gaming it became a gate pretty

637
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:27,760
quickly usually there's a two-week gate

638
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:29,980
delay but Climategate I think she's gone

639
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:31,510
for leaks now like with the wikileaks

640
00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:32,890
thing like that there's the main art

641
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:34,180
leaks well that sort of stuff you just

642
00:30:35,999 --> 00:30:34,809
stick leak

643
00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:36,009
on the end of something I'm old school

644
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:38,950
I'm a gate fan fair enough yeah yeah and

645
00:30:43,470 --> 00:30:41,440
that one did go to the top it did yeah I

646
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:43,480
mean you know straight to the alien /

647
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:45,370
thoughts of a controller what one do you

648
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:46,450
think they could have spent a little bit

649
00:30:49,619 --> 00:30:48,159
more time on a part for the climate one

650
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:49,629
the clever one for me has always been

651
00:30:53,310 --> 00:30:51,460
very difficult cuz it's so broad and

652
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:53,320
it's it is one of the ones where if

653
00:30:56,009 --> 00:30:54,490
you're really gonna get into an argument

654
00:30:57,570 --> 00:30:56,019
about it you got to have specific

655
00:30:59,759 --> 00:30:57,580
knowledge of a client scientist if you

656
00:31:01,259 --> 00:30:59,769
really want to knock it down I find yeah

657
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:01,269
look um I think the one that you

658
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:03,970
mentioned before which is fluoride love

659
00:31:07,529 --> 00:31:05,590
flow and yeah it's taken it's got

660
00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:07,539
traction here in Australia a lot of the

661
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:09,100
means that you seem sort of fluoride

662
00:31:14,249 --> 00:31:11,350
hysteria to rock up in in the world wind

663
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:14,259
turbines surprisingly as well well just

664
00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:15,970
within the last few months one of the

665
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:17,230
podcasts I listened to red ice radio

666
00:31:21,899 --> 00:31:19,570
they had someone who's anti-flu right on

667
00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:21,909
that and they were trying to get in

668
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:24,100
correlation between the amount of

669
00:31:28,590 --> 00:31:26,590
fluoride in the water and lack of bone

670
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:28,600
density and that kind of thing now is

671
00:31:34,619 --> 00:31:31,330
there anything the double-blind attested

672
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:34,629
to even prove that even once um do you

673
00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:36,820
mean in winter little with fluoride

674
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:38,830
small world will get to the winter my

675
00:31:43,499 --> 00:31:40,960
through the fluoride thing yeah so is

676
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:43,509
any actual double-blinded repeatable

677
00:31:48,090 --> 00:31:45,610
test that has any connection between

678
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:48,100
fluoride in your water and bone density

679
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:51,490
I don't think so um I'm I'm pretty like

680
00:31:55,049 --> 00:31:53,350
I've have looked into this before and

681
00:31:57,659 --> 00:31:55,059
not rigorously but I didn't come across

682
00:32:01,320 --> 00:31:57,669
any any research that wouldn't relate it

683
00:32:02,609 --> 00:32:01,330
to bone density but I think what you

684
00:32:06,899 --> 00:32:02,619
sort of said there is a really good

685
00:32:10,919 --> 00:32:06,909
example of the finding of the motivated

686
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:10,929
finding of correlations so people really

687
00:32:16,889 --> 00:32:13,090
really want to find a linkage between

688
00:32:18,779 --> 00:32:16,899
two things and what often happens is

689
00:32:20,909 --> 00:32:18,789
people turn to weak evidence to

690
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:20,919
establish that correlation and sometimes

691
00:32:25,739 --> 00:32:23,110
no evidence so it's pretty interesting

692
00:32:26,999 --> 00:32:25,749
guy that's my suspicion in says what's

693
00:32:28,259 --> 00:32:27,009
happened in that case but I don't know

694
00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:28,269
for sure and we'd have to look at the

695
00:32:33,060 --> 00:32:29,830
research now I'm looking forward to you

696
00:32:34,590 --> 00:32:33,070
talk about wind syndrome which is

697
00:32:36,350 --> 00:32:34,600
nothing to do a diet I thought it'd be a

698
00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:36,360
diet thing but it's got to do with that

699
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:40,600
wind power what do you think is the will

700
00:32:43,109 --> 00:32:41,529
be pointing to evidence it's

701
00:32:44,909 --> 00:32:43,119
non-existent where is the evidence that

702
00:32:46,430 --> 00:32:44,919
is really weak that they've latched on

703
00:32:47,749 --> 00:32:46,440
to where there is a grain of something

704
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:47,759
yeah there's there's a few things

705
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:50,129
actually and to be honest like it's you

706
00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:51,360
have to you have to be really really

707
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:52,740
careful because there are bits of

708
00:32:59,480 --> 00:32:56,159
research that are well conducted that

709
00:33:03,110 --> 00:32:59,490
the rigorous and they find a weak trace

710
00:33:07,789 --> 00:33:03,120
of something but it's not strong

711
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:07,799
evidence so not only do you have to look

712
00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:09,539
at the kind of a wacky pseudo scientific

713
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:11,580
stuff you have to look at the stuff that

714
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:13,860
seems like it's strong evidence and it's

715
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:15,480
touted as strong evidence but then you

716
00:33:19,369 --> 00:33:16,529
have to have the ability to judge

717
00:33:21,289 --> 00:33:19,379
whether or not the things that are

718
00:33:24,529 --> 00:33:21,299
indicated by that one paper or two

719
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:24,539
papers are strong indicators so just to

720
00:33:29,389 --> 00:33:26,970
give you an example there's a paper out

721
00:33:32,029 --> 00:33:29,399
of I think it's Wisconsin that came out

722
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,039
recently and they measured infrasound at

723
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:34,080
a bunch of homes and infrasound will be

724
00:33:38,629 --> 00:33:35,850
super super low frequency noise so below

725
00:33:40,279 --> 00:33:38,639
20 Hertz and they measured that and they

726
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:40,289
also gave questionnaires to people and

727
00:33:45,499 --> 00:33:41,970
said how do you feel do you feel sick to

728
00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:45,509
feel fine it has grown and um they get

729
00:33:48,289 --> 00:33:46,409
the measurements they get the

730
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:48,299
questionnaires with all the time stamps

731
00:33:51,889 --> 00:33:50,250
on them and they put them together and

732
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:51,899
they go oh my god you know when there's

733
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,850
more infrasound people who are feeling

734
00:33:58,369 --> 00:33:56,399
you know nor sure and headaches and

735
00:34:00,879 --> 00:33:58,379
stuff like that now it was a very very

736
00:34:03,049 --> 00:34:00,889
small sample size the area has a high

737
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:03,059
sort of propensity for anti-wind

738
00:34:09,139 --> 00:34:05,519
activism the study was widely sort of

739
00:34:11,059 --> 00:34:09,149
advertised so that's not

740
00:34:12,859 --> 00:34:11,069
pseudo-scientific in and of itself but

741
00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:12,869
you have to consider the strength of the

742
00:34:16,250 --> 00:34:14,730
evidence at the same time so in addition

743
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:16,260
to yeah so in addition to all of our

744
00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:17,970
pseudo scientific stuff there are a few

745
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:19,710
little bits and pieces of stuff that you

746
00:34:24,619 --> 00:34:21,690
could actually feasibly say count as

747
00:34:27,889 --> 00:34:24,629
rigorous scientific analysis but reach

748
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,899
week conclusions and have you had a

749
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:30,000
really knocked down in your face

750
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:32,040
argument with their people on the

751
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,810
conspiracy side with the wind argument

752
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:36,000
there and do you go down that do you

753
00:34:39,139 --> 00:34:37,980
spend a lot of time like dr. rach over

754
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:39,149
there right now she's having an argument

755
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:40,800
with someone on the health ranger

756
00:34:44,510 --> 00:34:42,990
website i can tell that yeah did you

757
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:44,520
throw yourself out like she hasn't slept

758
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:48,480
since 1987 um yeah I do actually and it

759
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:51,359
really depends on my mood if I'm if I'm

760
00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:55,169
feeling Reggie and irrational then I

761
00:35:00,530 --> 00:34:58,710
just I'll go to some website and

762
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,540
you know I never use a fake name I never

763
00:35:04,820 --> 00:35:02,400
you know I go and tell announce who I am

764
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:04,830
I tell them you know what what it do for

765
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:07,410
a living and I have at them and they

766
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:10,980
have at me and it's I mean it's my

767
00:35:14,270 --> 00:35:13,170
intentions aren't always honorable and

768
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:14,280
sometimes I'm doing it because I'm in a

769
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,630
bad mood and I feel like arguing with

770
00:35:19,070 --> 00:35:17,280
somebody I'm always said I'm always

771
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:19,080
sending photos of my genitalia to people

772
00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:20,760
around about eleven thirty at night do

773
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:21,720
you think there should be thing that you

774
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,980
shoot you shouldn't get involved with

775
00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:24,960
people on a forum after eleven-thirty

776
00:35:28,460 --> 00:35:26,220
tonight do you think that should be the

777
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:28,470
rule um well you know I haven't I

778
00:35:35,150 --> 00:35:30,810
haven't involved my genitalia in any of

779
00:35:37,070 --> 00:35:35,160
these discussions well probably I go

780
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:37,080
straight to that it's for someone with

781
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:38,609
you lose actually been to university you

782
00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:40,410
should probably ramp up to it like let's

783
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,510
take it over an hour or so yeah you know

784
00:35:48,530 --> 00:35:45,119
I mean maybe one day I'll consider the

785
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:48,540
pros and cons of doing that um but

786
00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:50,010
sometimes you just want to look look

787
00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:52,619
don't be a dick here no actually well I

788
00:35:55,700 --> 00:35:54,660
have it like my I think I kind of know

789
00:35:56,810 --> 00:35:55,710
what you're getting at and it's when you

790
00:35:59,300 --> 00:35:56,820
sort of reached the end of your tether

791
00:36:02,240 --> 00:35:59,310
that and you just go I just want to do

792
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:02,250
something completely out of the blue I

793
00:36:08,089 --> 00:36:04,290
don't I don't answer that I actually

794
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:08,099
turned to cute animals um and if I'm

795
00:36:10,849 --> 00:36:09,119
having an argument and it's going

796
00:36:12,859 --> 00:36:10,859
nowhere and they're just like insulting

797
00:36:14,270 --> 00:36:12,869
me and they're not getting my point I

798
00:36:15,740 --> 00:36:14,280
just start posting pictures of cute

799
00:36:17,630 --> 00:36:15,750
animals and I was doing that last night

800
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,640
you could get an internet law named

801
00:36:22,910 --> 00:36:19,200
after you you could be that the nice

802
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:22,920
Godwin's law yeah scotland's law ya know

803
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:24,930
we could wake up for a name with the law

804
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:29,280
right now well let's call it um joshi's

805
00:36:34,339 --> 00:36:33,060
fluffy law are they I think Josh's law

806
00:36:35,570 --> 00:36:34,349
is pretty good because that way gets

807
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:35,580
your name in there and you get your name

808
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:37,050
associated with you because it is good

809
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:38,970
and actually what actually happens when

810
00:36:42,260 --> 00:36:40,890
you do that there is a bit but also just

811
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,270
shut the argument down what Google

812
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,880
normally happens it shuts the argument

813
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,800
down because I mean the argument has

814
00:36:51,550 --> 00:36:48,240
already been shut down to some degree

815
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:51,560
it's when people just stop trying to

816
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:54,180
engage with what you're challenging them

817
00:36:59,180 --> 00:36:56,490
with and they to start spouting like

818
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,190
black conspiracy theories or they just

819
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:01,680
insult you or it just goes nowhere and

820
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:04,560
it's it's genuinely funny to see these

821
00:37:07,490 --> 00:37:05,910
people try and react to something that

822
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:07,500
they're genuinely not expecting because

823
00:37:10,410 --> 00:37:08,820
when they insult you they expect you to

824
00:37:12,839 --> 00:37:10,420
be offended and get angry and you know

825
00:37:15,930 --> 00:37:12,849
you know like aroused with anger and

826
00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:15,940
just grow but I'd like dr. hu over there

827
00:37:23,059 --> 00:37:19,150
look at a go oh man that if you respond

828
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:23,069
if you respond with a baby fennec fox

829
00:37:29,069 --> 00:37:27,130
yeah yeah then they first of all I don't

830
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:29,079
know what animal it is and secondly they

831
00:37:32,910 --> 00:37:30,190
don't know why you're posting animal

832
00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:32,920
pictures and it's just a wonderful way

833
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:35,260
of just confusing the hell out of them

834
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:37,599
and you kind of win in their way it's

835
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:39,220
very peculiar now you're obviously

836
00:37:43,230 --> 00:37:40,990
obviously down with that wind generation

837
00:37:45,839 --> 00:37:43,240
power what about getting pushed back

838
00:37:47,609 --> 00:37:45,849
from other renewable sources people like

839
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:47,619
do the thermal people or the title

840
00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:49,210
people come to and going hey come on you

841
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,430
know you gotta look at thermal energy

842
00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:53,440
it's the future man yeah well you know I

843
00:37:57,089 --> 00:37:55,750
tried I try to be my philosophy with

844
00:38:00,720 --> 00:37:57,099
other energy types whether they're

845
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,730
renewable or thermal is none of them are

846
00:38:06,510 --> 00:38:03,280
evil and you know you have to consider

847
00:38:07,799 --> 00:38:06,520
the benefits of each and most them

848
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:07,809
actually do have benefits including coal

849
00:38:14,579 --> 00:38:12,640
and gas it's just that you have to wait

850
00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:14,589
your usage of those fuel types according

851
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:15,640
to their benefits and currently is

852
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:19,210
skewed towards um ones that are not as

853
00:38:23,339 --> 00:38:21,730
beneficial as other ones so might that's

854
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:23,349
like philosophy you just kind of have to

855
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:24,910
shift or the other way so if someone

856
00:38:29,010 --> 00:38:26,410
from geothermal came up to me and said

857
00:38:31,799 --> 00:38:29,020
ah you know would be winter my zune

858
00:38:36,420 --> 00:38:31,809
geothermal oh my response is always like

859
00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:36,430
great go for it do it and what do you

860
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:38,680
think is because wind blows at certain

861
00:38:42,510 --> 00:38:40,210
times a day and what do you think is the

862
00:38:45,059 --> 00:38:42,520
best solution for base load is it an

863
00:38:47,370 --> 00:38:45,069
improvement of large storage batteries

864
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:47,380
of that size or is it or is it a mixture

865
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:49,839
I mean for oil and gas and coal powered

866
00:38:54,180 --> 00:38:52,480
plants yeah there's kind of three this

867
00:38:57,319 --> 00:38:54,190
three ways of looking at it um the first

868
00:39:00,539 --> 00:38:57,329
one is more like shorter term which is

869
00:39:01,890 --> 00:39:00,549
making up the times when when renewable

870
00:39:03,539 --> 00:39:01,900
sources aren't generating with our

871
00:39:07,819 --> 00:39:03,549
current assets so we've got we've got

872
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:07,829
coal assets we've got gas got hydro and

873
00:39:13,319 --> 00:39:10,030
sorry I always forget about hydro sorry

874
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:13,329
hydro which is actually renewable but if

875
00:39:16,650 --> 00:39:14,770
it's a little bit stuffs the environment

876
00:39:18,299 --> 00:39:16,660
in a different way yeah i mean its

877
00:39:21,609 --> 00:39:18,309
renewable in the strictest sense of the

878
00:39:23,950 --> 00:39:21,619
term which is it rains it

879
00:39:25,299 --> 00:39:23,960
it rains yeah the resource replenishes

880
00:39:28,059 --> 00:39:25,309
that are right greater than which we use

881
00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:28,069
it that's renewable so that's kind of a

882
00:39:33,069 --> 00:39:29,660
short term longer term hopefully

883
00:39:36,009 --> 00:39:33,079
batteries become more like going you

884
00:39:37,450 --> 00:39:36,019
know the cheaper large capacity they're

885
00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:37,460
a bunch of cool wind turbines going up

886
00:39:41,140 --> 00:39:38,630
in New South Wales soon that have

887
00:39:42,549 --> 00:39:41,150
batteries in them to smooth out the

888
00:39:45,549 --> 00:39:42,559
degeneration curve which i think is

889
00:39:49,539 --> 00:39:45,559
pretty cool and yeah I mean there's the

890
00:39:54,009 --> 00:39:49,549
third option which is nuclear and that

891
00:39:55,630 --> 00:39:54,019
is an interesting debate to me it is it

892
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:55,640
has parallels with a bunch of other

893
00:40:00,249 --> 00:39:57,680
energy debates because what I try to

894
00:40:04,029 --> 00:40:00,259
fire it off you just fart I think um the

895
00:40:06,579 --> 00:40:04,039
kind of the emotion and the like the

896
00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:06,589
tribalism and all that sort of stuff in

897
00:40:10,839 --> 00:40:08,630
the world of nuclear just fascinates me

898
00:40:12,460 --> 00:40:10,849
to no end and look I don't get involved

899
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:12,470
little about the whole for a good

900
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:13,730
thorium thing that's a whole nother

901
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:16,160
thorny issue yeah it's very thorny issue

902
00:40:21,339 --> 00:40:19,130
and I mean I'm fascinated it from

903
00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:21,349
fascinated by it from a social

904
00:40:25,630 --> 00:40:23,480
perspective I mean how human beings

905
00:40:27,970 --> 00:40:25,640
considered a technology in generation so

906
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:27,980
yeah I think the best thing would be is

907
00:40:30,549 --> 00:40:29,119
if when you finish your talk this

908
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:30,559
afternoon and they ask four questions

909
00:40:34,479 --> 00:40:32,690
that a couple of hands go off and if no

910
00:40:37,019 --> 00:40:34,489
hands go up i'll have to ask something

911
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,029
about fluffy animals or something yeah

912
00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:39,680
yeah well no animals do feature in my

913
00:40:44,739 --> 00:40:42,200
talk um yeah I have some I have a

914
00:40:47,259 --> 00:40:44,749
lawcast in there so now I was told

915
00:40:49,539 --> 00:40:47,269
yesterday that wind farms in the u.s.

916
00:40:51,009 --> 00:40:49,549
kill 40,000 Birds a year now is that

917
00:40:52,539 --> 00:40:51,019
just a figure plucked out of someone's

918
00:40:56,109 --> 00:40:52,549
salad roll or is that actually a real

919
00:40:58,809 --> 00:40:56,119
thing um it's that 40,000 a year figure

920
00:41:02,190 --> 00:40:58,819
varies every time I hear it but it's

921
00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:02,200
actually roughly it's not too inaccurate

922
00:41:07,380 --> 00:41:04,609
it's not it's not ever presented in the

923
00:41:09,249 --> 00:41:07,390
context of other generation types so

924
00:41:12,670 --> 00:41:09,259
coal-fired power stations kill more

925
00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:12,680
birds than wind turbines do oh yeah you

926
00:41:16,359 --> 00:41:14,630
know yet unity that just goes all the

927
00:41:17,769 --> 00:41:16,369
all the poop that comes out of the stack

928
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:17,779
or they get you it up and stuff or no

929
00:41:22,479 --> 00:41:19,609
it's just collisions it's just building

930
00:41:24,339 --> 00:41:22,489
collisions and there's just so if you

931
00:41:25,749 --> 00:41:24,349
built fan blades it didn't move the

932
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:25,759
birds would still run into that anyway

933
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:28,640
it's quite likely yeah so I mean it's

934
00:41:31,539 --> 00:41:30,170
that like I mean they collide with

935
00:41:33,549 --> 00:41:31,549
nuclear power stations they collide with

936
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,559
qualified power stations they collide

937
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:34,960
with buildings

938
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:38,650
collect cars they can even buy cats the

939
00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:40,810
whole thing with winter bites and birds

940
00:41:48,090 --> 00:41:44,500
is that what they take is a threat or a

941
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:48,100
risk that exists and they remove context

942
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:50,230
and the exaggerated and they isolated in

943
00:41:54,270 --> 00:41:51,970
exclusion everything else yep can then

944
00:41:56,250 --> 00:41:54,280
they exaggerate it and once you've done

945
00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:56,260
that that's actually pretty much all you

946
00:42:00,570 --> 00:41:57,730
need but as soon as you layer on an

947
00:42:02,430 --> 00:42:00,580
emotional context on that as well when

948
00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:02,440
you sort of like look at tape rabbits

949
00:42:05,370 --> 00:42:03,880
and said all the american eagle or

950
00:42:07,530 --> 00:42:05,380
something that people feel a deep

951
00:42:10,770 --> 00:42:07,540
connection to then you can stoke

952
00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:10,780
opposition without really having to have

953
00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:12,760
any analytical rigor behind it you

954
00:42:18,540 --> 00:42:14,980
mentioned cats kill birds well maybe

955
00:42:20,070 --> 00:42:18,550
cats could power society because if you

956
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:20,080
could harness any edge of cat if you

957
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:21,970
could put random person to walk in if we

958
00:42:25,470 --> 00:42:23,710
could harness to get the energy of cats

959
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:25,480
how much better off would we be I

960
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:28,270
actually wish I had my my work laptop

961
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:29,890
here because I literally did a

962
00:42:35,340 --> 00:42:32,710
calculation about a year ago to

963
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:35,350
determine cat equivalent winter by

964
00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:38,770
generation and it was the that their

965
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:40,120
paws are too small that no matter how

966
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:41,290
fast you spin them they're not going to

967
00:42:46,290 --> 00:42:43,410
give who is it was cats on treadmills um

968
00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:46,300
and I took the walking speed of a cannon

969
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:47,950
and the generation of treadmill it was

970
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:50,530
in watts and um it was in the millions

971
00:42:55,260 --> 00:42:53,680
like you like it or one a single three

972
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:55,270
megawatt wind turbine running at full

973
00:42:59,730 --> 00:42:57,610
capacity is a few million cats on a

974
00:43:01,500 --> 00:42:59,740
treadmill I on multiple treadmills

975
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:01,510
obviously well I could just see that

976
00:43:05,310 --> 00:43:03,310
youtube video of the meeting cats on the

977
00:43:06,810 --> 00:43:05,320
treadmill well I'll see I've got your

978
00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:06,820
brain now into the right space it needs

979
00:43:10,140 --> 00:43:08,470
to be to go in and face a room of

980
00:43:13,340 --> 00:43:10,150
skeptics I can tell violence I'm not on

981
00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:13,350
until 240 I've done this too early well

982
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:15,400
there's a bottle of vodka over there I

983
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:16,480
don't see any reason why we shouldn't

984
00:43:21,810 --> 00:43:19,330
start now and don't be scared if someone

985
00:43:24,570 --> 00:43:21,820
asks a dumb question to say there are no

986
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:24,580
dumb questions only dumb people I'm

987
00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:26,650
actually I'm slightly terrified of the

988
00:43:31,230 --> 00:43:29,230
questions as well because the audience

989
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:31,240
is actually informed and intelligence

990
00:43:34,290 --> 00:43:33,130
and that's always a it's always a

991
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:34,300
horrible thing to have when you're doing

992
00:43:38,690 --> 00:43:36,400
a talk you want you want some you want

993
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:38,700
ignorant and gullible yeah

994
00:43:43,310 --> 00:43:41,490
that informed and intelligent also it's

995
00:43:45,079 --> 00:43:43,320
also bad one for humor as well you know

996
00:43:47,329 --> 00:43:45,089
avatar tell jokes you and then you have

997
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:47,339
to explain the joke doin oh yeah yeah I

998
00:43:52,220 --> 00:43:50,160
no no no humor in my talk I'm completely

999
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:52,230
against it good okay well if I'm

1000
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:55,770
laughing you'll know why well the

1001
00:43:58,910 --> 00:43:57,450
skeptics National Convention is underway

1002
00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:58,920
all the conspiracies have been named

1003
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:01,140
right on stage there but as shortly

1004
00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:02,970
after that we had a bit of a lack of

1005
00:44:07,130 --> 00:44:04,980
internet and lack of power here and lack

1006
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:07,140
of air conditioning what's going on I

1007
00:44:10,339 --> 00:44:08,310
don't have the faintest clue actually

1008
00:44:12,140 --> 00:44:10,349
yeah it's a little bit suspicious that a

1009
00:44:14,089 --> 00:44:12,150
conspiracy conference there would be a

1010
00:44:15,470 --> 00:44:14,099
conspiracy first up we've already seen

1011
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:15,480
evidence that Bill Gates is monitoring

1012
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:17,400
us so it's highly possible that he had

1013
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:18,930
something doing off the power remotely I

1014
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:20,609
certainly hope he's watching me nude on

1015
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:24,510
my webcam every night Irene up because

1016
00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:25,950
I'm sending the image to enough websites

1017
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,900
I hope he sees that eventually I really

1018
00:44:31,069 --> 00:44:29,280
don't know what bills in to say you know

1019
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:31,079
could be could be now you've been the

1020
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:32,460
first person that was revealed the

1021
00:44:36,589 --> 00:44:34,650
secret code word that everybody's a

1022
00:44:39,890 --> 00:44:36,599
everyone who says his secret code to me

1023
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:39,900
gets a controversial and conspiratorial

1024
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:42,570
DVD what did you say to me sir I said

1025
00:44:46,490 --> 00:44:45,300
William Shatner's pants that's right

1026
00:44:48,050 --> 00:44:46,500
anyone who comes up to me and says

1027
00:44:49,970 --> 00:44:48,060
William Shatner's pants the name of one

1028
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:49,980
of my favorite Australian bands will

1029
00:44:54,770 --> 00:44:52,619
actually get a DVD of an unknown nature

1030
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:54,780
that will become revealed later on in

1031
00:44:59,059 --> 00:44:57,210
the show but you've seen it haven't you

1032
00:45:01,370 --> 00:44:59,069
I've seen it I've got it stuck on my

1033
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:01,380
finger at the moment okay well we'll see

1034
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:02,730
how this goes now what conspiracy are

1035
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:03,750
you looking forward to being unveiled

1036
00:45:08,569 --> 00:45:06,690
here to this weekend I've been thinking

1037
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:08,579
about the Kennedy assassination a lot

1038
00:45:11,870 --> 00:45:10,020
over the past few months as everybody

1039
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:11,880
else has and I think I've uncovered

1040
00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:15,210
something or what are you uncovered why

1041
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:16,440
don't have you listened to Brian

1042
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:18,240
darlings later sceptile podcast so now

1043
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:19,560
he's yes indeed yes indeed all

1044
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:21,180
completely wrong there anyway one of

1045
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:22,319
things he brings up there is Vincent

1046
00:45:25,579 --> 00:45:23,849
Billy Oh Sees book reclaiming history

1047
00:45:27,859 --> 00:45:25,589
which claims to go through and debunk

1048
00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,869
all the conspiracy theories and I've got

1049
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:29,040
a problem with that problem is is I

1050
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:31,140
can't seem to be able to buy it so I'm

1051
00:45:38,839 --> 00:45:34,910
wondering whether the conspiracy that

1052
00:45:40,670 --> 00:45:38,849
covers all of those theories is being

1053
00:45:42,349 --> 00:45:40,680
hidden from asset so we can't buy that

1054
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:42,359
book because we bought that book we'd

1055
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:43,650
find all the ones that don't work that

1056
00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:45,690
we find the true one is the one not in

1057
00:45:49,499 --> 00:45:47,190
the book so you've just successfully

1058
00:45:51,989 --> 00:45:49,509
tied the name Brian Dunning into the

1059
00:45:55,019 --> 00:45:51,999
FK conspiracy congratulations thank you

1060
00:45:56,579 --> 00:45:55,029
thank you look I'm just walking through

1061
00:45:58,199 --> 00:45:56,589
the lunch break on the Saturday here at

1062
00:46:00,120 --> 00:45:58,209
the National skeptics conference I'm

1063
00:46:02,459 --> 00:46:00,130
talking to agent smith but which agent

1064
00:46:04,139 --> 00:46:02,469
smith am I talking to this time I go

1065
00:46:05,939 --> 00:46:04,149
tell you that I'm sorry you're just

1066
00:46:08,399 --> 00:46:05,949
highly placed within the organization

1067
00:46:10,979 --> 00:46:08,409
yes i am a no and mainly behind what's

1068
00:46:12,929 --> 00:46:10,989
been going on here yes I am yeah so no

1069
00:46:15,689 --> 00:46:12,939
it's so I correct that it's been the

1070
00:46:18,029 --> 00:46:15,699
team the team has done all the work so

1071
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:18,039
they deserve all the credit what's been

1072
00:46:21,149 --> 00:46:19,569
the hardest thing about organizing the

1073
00:46:24,449 --> 00:46:21,159
Australian skeptics National Convention

1074
00:46:25,499 --> 00:46:24,459
in 2013 probably the program is always

1075
00:46:28,589 --> 00:46:25,509
going to be the hard while getting the

1076
00:46:30,929 --> 00:46:28,599
right mix and balance of people & topics

1077
00:46:33,629 --> 00:46:30,939
and obviously getting people here on on

1078
00:46:36,089 --> 00:46:33,639
time it's that that is the hardest

1079
00:46:38,009 --> 00:46:36,099
factor of all every group of skeptics

1080
00:46:39,959 --> 00:46:38,019
had their sort of stamp of the way they

1081
00:46:41,399 --> 00:46:39,969
do things the Melbourne people have

1082
00:46:43,499 --> 00:46:41,409
there's a Sydney people had theirs

1083
00:46:45,059 --> 00:46:43,509
what's the Canberra and stamp on the

1084
00:46:46,709 --> 00:46:45,069
skeptics it is an issue that you guys

1085
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:46,719
are concerned about here more than

1086
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:49,359
elsewhere in Australia I wouldn't say

1087
00:46:55,409 --> 00:46:52,689
there's so much of a specific issue but

1088
00:46:58,469 --> 00:46:55,419
we cover areas that are not

1089
00:47:01,199 --> 00:46:58,479
traditionally covered by other skeptical

1090
00:47:03,209 --> 00:47:01,209
groups so for instance we've had Peter

1091
00:47:05,339 --> 00:47:03,219
lay the former Chief of Army come and

1092
00:47:08,249 --> 00:47:05,349
talk to us we've had people like hugh

1093
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:08,259
white we've taken advantage of places

1094
00:47:14,219 --> 00:47:10,380
like the Australian National University

1095
00:47:17,249 --> 00:47:14,229
CSIRO and really got two topics that

1096
00:47:18,929 --> 00:47:17,259
aren't traditional skeptical things so

1097
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:18,939
for instance we had bread beddington

1098
00:47:24,569 --> 00:47:22,209
talk about Australia's role in space

1099
00:47:26,999 --> 00:47:24,579
debris management so very very

1100
00:47:28,889 --> 00:47:27,009
interesting topics that aren't aren't

1101
00:47:30,389 --> 00:47:28,899
the norm for the skeptical movement yeah

1102
00:47:31,979 --> 00:47:30,399
and you have you have quite an active

1103
00:47:33,569 --> 00:47:31,989
debate going to when you get them all

1104
00:47:35,219 --> 00:47:33,579
there oh because I've read the the

1105
00:47:36,899 --> 00:47:35,229
minutes of the meetings that you guys

1106
00:47:38,339 --> 00:47:36,909
have and they can get quite far in fact

1107
00:47:40,859 --> 00:47:38,349
he had someone walk out of a climate

1108
00:47:42,479 --> 00:47:40,869
change while months yes we did and the

1109
00:47:44,399 --> 00:47:42,489
person who gave that speech snick where

1110
00:47:46,589 --> 00:47:44,409
we'll be doing the same one again but

1111
00:47:47,309 --> 00:47:46,599
that was that was interesting hmm and

1112
00:47:49,739 --> 00:47:47,319
what do you think is the most

1113
00:47:52,049 --> 00:47:49,749
interesting conspiracy theory that

1114
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:52,059
you've seen raised in your studies for

1115
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:53,450
this weekend

1116
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:56,089
I think definitely the JFK stuff is the

1117
00:48:01,240 --> 00:47:58,000
most interesting because the most

1118
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:01,250
popular huh see I've always been written

1119
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:02,720
outside on that cuz I've been a big fan

1120
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:04,970
of the Cubans doing it a lot of people

1121
00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:07,369
into the Cubans doing it but I like that

1122
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:09,230
you know i don't think they get enough

1123
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:11,570
respect from the JFK theory people I

1124
00:48:21,130 --> 00:48:14,450
thought it was the Russians yeah I

1125
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,140
thought or the Mafia or the FBI or in

1126
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:23,119
that goddamn bilham maybe even more than

1127
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:24,770
we just thought sure they explained him

1128
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:25,970
a couple of years back but I don't

1129
00:48:31,390 --> 00:48:28,730
believe that yeah well there's an

1130
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:31,400
argument for everything there everybody

1131
00:48:36,010 --> 00:48:34,250
has their own view on what happened but

1132
00:48:38,170 --> 00:48:36,020
there's realistically there's evidence

1133
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:38,180
that the Evelyn's evidence sorry only

1134
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:39,890
points in one direction now there's a

1135
00:48:44,140 --> 00:48:42,410
few there's a few skeptics things I've

1136
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:44,150
been to up into Tam and Las Vegas I've

1137
00:48:46,660 --> 00:48:45,410
been to the Melbourne conference on me

1138
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:46,670
to the Sydney conference i'm here in

1139
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:48,890
Canberra where is where someone with a

1140
00:48:52,089 --> 00:48:50,210
sandwich board where were the other

1141
00:48:54,010 --> 00:48:52,099
people come to protest what's going on

1142
00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:54,020
here I haven't seen any of that any any

1143
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:56,150
of the events I've been to I'm not that

1144
00:49:00,640 --> 00:48:58,160
good an organizer unfortunately because

1145
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:00,650
it we need someone coming along telling

1146
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:02,390
telling all these people here they're

1147
00:49:06,490 --> 00:49:05,359
the crackpots haha well maybe that's

1148
00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:06,500
what we'll try for the next convention

1149
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:08,150
now what I got planned for the dinner

1150
00:49:11,140 --> 00:49:09,650
tonight got the big skeptics dinner we

1151
00:49:13,870 --> 00:49:11,150
all know skeptics can eat and they can

1152
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:13,880
drink and they can butt off obviously

1153
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:16,640
because it's or today Australia in time

1154
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:18,800
it is the 50th anniversary of the first

1155
00:49:23,859 --> 00:49:22,010
screening of Doctor Who so the the the

1156
00:49:26,290 --> 00:49:23,869
dinner sorry is going to be a doctor who

1157
00:49:28,059 --> 00:49:26,300
themed one hopefully we'll see people

1158
00:49:29,829 --> 00:49:28,069
just as their favorite doctor who

1159
00:49:32,589 --> 00:49:29,839
characters and of course I will be

1160
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:32,599
asking the central point the main

1161
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:34,490
question in 50 years of Doctor Who who

1162
00:49:38,589 --> 00:49:36,770
of course is the unpopular doctor now I

1163
00:49:41,530 --> 00:49:38,599
believe that the unpopular doctor in

1164
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:41,540
Wikipedia terms was the first or second

1165
00:49:44,650 --> 00:49:43,130
one that followed tom baker he was a

1166
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:44,660
doctor who that didn't mind a fight and

1167
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:47,630
was a little bit unlikable ok hmm have

1168
00:49:50,590 --> 00:49:49,010
you got an answer if you think

1169
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:50,600
the unpopular doctors don't have an

1170
00:49:55,990 --> 00:49:52,370
answer for that one I think I'll save

1171
00:49:57,550 --> 00:49:56,000
maybe the email deluge did not respond

1172
00:49:58,900 --> 00:49:57,560
to that question okay we'll look good

1173
00:50:00,220 --> 00:49:58,910
congratulations on running the

1174
00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:00,230
conference so we'll of course it's only

1175
00:50:03,310 --> 00:50:01,550
lunchtime on Saturday but it's gone

1176
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:03,320
pretty well so far if it has thank you

1177
00:50:08,410 --> 00:50:05,330
very much and thank you for coming well

1178
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:08,420
my name is Graham Wilson my historical

1179
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:10,850
qualifications are basically that on

1180
00:50:14,890 --> 00:50:12,290
behalf of the Australian Army History

1181
00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:14,900
Unit I have published to both popular

1182
00:50:18,730 --> 00:50:16,760
and critically well-received books on

1183
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:18,740
Australian military history one of which

1184
00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:20,660
is entitled dust donkeys and delusions

1185
00:50:24,610 --> 00:50:22,880
the myth of Simpson and the donkey

1186
00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:24,620
exposed I always thought that military

1187
00:50:27,940 --> 00:50:26,270
history has a certain extent of

1188
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:27,950
propaganda in it so when you're

1189
00:50:31,270 --> 00:50:29,810
explaining the way that Simpsons myth

1190
00:50:32,170 --> 00:50:31,280
has been growing up I thought that that

1191
00:50:34,030 --> 00:50:32,180
would be something that's almost

1192
00:50:36,070 --> 00:50:34,040
expected because the propaganda always

1193
00:50:38,290 --> 00:50:36,080
comes into it doesn't it propaganda

1194
00:50:40,420 --> 00:50:38,300
might be expected but there is no reason

1195
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:40,430
for us to accept that as history DNA

1196
00:50:45,580 --> 00:50:42,650
they used it at the time for a specific

1197
00:50:48,430 --> 00:50:45,590
reason and we can recognize that reason

1198
00:50:50,350 --> 00:50:48,440
however let's strip the Papa Gator away

1199
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,360
and look at the real story I guess

1200
00:50:53,530 --> 00:50:51,920
people have been saying that in some way

1201
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:53,540
you've been disrespecting the man by

1202
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:55,280
investigating this way how do you react

1203
00:51:00,910 --> 00:50:57,920
to that I make it quite clear that I

1204
00:51:03,370 --> 00:51:00,920
absolutely respect admire and I even

1205
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:03,380
personally like jack simpson as much as

1206
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:05,510
I can like someone who died 40 years

1207
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:08,480
before I was born you know I spent the

1208
00:51:13,210 --> 00:51:10,580
better part of 11 years stripping away

1209
00:51:14,530 --> 00:51:13,220
all of the layers surrounding him and at

1210
00:51:18,310 --> 00:51:14,540
the end of it I actually found a young

1211
00:51:19,630 --> 00:51:18,320
man who I liked I would have been quite

1212
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:19,640
happy to sit down to have a beer with

1213
00:51:24,700 --> 00:51:22,430
jack simpson and I admire him for what

1214
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:24,710
he did at Gallipoli he did a very good

1215
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:27,680
job he did a useful job if that job had

1216
00:51:31,690 --> 00:51:29,810
not been recognized as useful it would

1217
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:31,700
have been he would have been told to

1218
00:51:36,370 --> 00:51:34,370
stop doing it and he paid the ultimate

1219
00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:36,380
sacrifice he paid with his life on he

1220
00:51:40,690 --> 00:51:38,180
was doing that job so I have the

1221
00:51:43,390 --> 00:51:40,700
absolute utmost respect and admiration

1222
00:51:44,980 --> 00:51:43,400
for jack simpson if people can't see

1223
00:51:47,140 --> 00:51:44,990
that we have to file under the heading

1224
00:51:48,790 --> 00:51:47,150
of it's their problem not mine well you

1225
00:51:50,380 --> 00:51:48,800
just did the investigation about how

1226
00:51:52,930 --> 00:51:50,390
physically possible it was to do what

1227
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:52,940
has been claimed he did not only just

1228
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:55,730
that but all of the other aspects of the

1229
00:51:58,680 --> 00:51:57,410
story you know that the Simpson method

1230
00:52:00,540 --> 00:51:58,690
is not just a

1231
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:00,550
meath if we call it the Simpson if that

1232
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:02,410
is a myth of myths there are a number of

1233
00:52:07,460 --> 00:52:04,450
little myths that or smaller myths that

1234
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:07,470
make up the bigger mid and in my book I

1235
00:52:13,140 --> 00:52:10,530
examine all of these Mets myths such as

1236
00:52:15,690 --> 00:52:13,150
he was universally known at Gallipoli

1237
00:52:17,940 --> 00:52:15,700
now he wasn't we can prove that a hush

1238
00:52:19,980 --> 00:52:17,950
fell over the peninsula the day he was

1239
00:52:22,349 --> 00:52:19,990
killed no we can prove that that didn't

1240
00:52:25,050 --> 00:52:22,359
happen as well the myth that he had some

1241
00:52:27,150 --> 00:52:25,060
sort of mystical affiliate affinity with

1242
00:52:28,740 --> 00:52:27,160
animals you know we can throw that into

1243
00:52:31,170 --> 00:52:28,750
question as well there are all of these

1244
00:52:33,420 --> 00:52:31,180
various myths and in particular the myth

1245
00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:33,430
that he was ever officially recommended

1246
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:34,990
for the award of the Victoria Cross

1247
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,690
which he wasn't the way we use the word

1248
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:40,000
hero in Australia and Western culture

1249
00:52:43,050 --> 00:52:41,650
you can be an illness sugar being a

1250
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:43,060
sporting team and it's course it's used

1251
00:52:46,740 --> 00:52:45,040
militarily as well what makes you most

1252
00:52:49,079 --> 00:52:46,750
uncomfortable about the use of the word

1253
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:49,089
hero sometimes well when I hear things

1254
00:52:56,130 --> 00:52:52,480
like a tennis player is a national hero

1255
00:52:58,920 --> 00:52:56,140
no you can call that person nationally

1256
00:53:00,660 --> 00:52:58,930
admired and admired person a respected

1257
00:53:02,339 --> 00:53:00,670
person but there's nothing particularly

1258
00:53:04,170 --> 00:53:02,349
heroic about going out on a clay-court

1259
00:53:07,290 --> 00:53:04,180
and lobbing a ball back and forth

1260
00:53:10,290 --> 00:53:07,300
whereas Simpson really was a quiet hero

1261
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:10,300
he quietly went about his job every day

1262
00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:13,530
for 24 days in a place that was

1263
00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:16,329
incredibly dangerous and he paid for his

1264
00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:18,640
life during him he actually is a good

1265
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:20,740
definition of what the word hero should

1266
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:23,530
be the media needs to suck back a little

1267
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:26,650
bit step back and see that they're over

1268
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:29,410
using some words and basically rendering

1269
00:53:33,089 --> 00:53:31,210
them meaningless I'm probably preaching

1270
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:33,099
to the choir here now when I say to you

1271
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,510
Maynard we live in a world of sound

1272
00:53:40,140 --> 00:53:36,880
bites and if you want to get your

1273
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:40,150
message across in maybe 20 seconds in a

1274
00:53:44,550 --> 00:53:42,490
media clip then you have to go for

1275
00:53:48,540 --> 00:53:44,560
superlatives it is unfortunate that that

1276
00:53:50,339 --> 00:53:48,550
happens words like hero and just just

1277
00:53:51,990 --> 00:53:50,349
about lost their meaning and of course

1278
00:53:53,309 --> 00:53:52,000
when we read history there's bits have

1279
00:53:54,660 --> 00:53:53,319
to be left out of history and you

1280
00:53:55,890 --> 00:53:54,670
mentioned the people that don't get as

1281
00:53:57,809 --> 00:53:55,900
much of a mention at Gallipoli and

1282
00:53:59,520 --> 00:53:57,819
that's the stretch of errors indeed

1283
00:54:01,200 --> 00:53:59,530
there are a number of Diaries and

1284
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:01,210
personal recollections of other

1285
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:03,280
stretcher bearers you read them but

1286
00:54:05,180 --> 00:54:04,510
during the war and off the wall where

1287
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:05,190
they're a little bit

1288
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:07,920
annoyed at everything that's given to

1289
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:10,440
Simpson and basically nothing given to

1290
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:12,930
them and they feel that their their work

1291
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:15,510
their sacrifice has been it was

1292
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:17,369
overshadowed by this adulation of

1293
00:54:21,890 --> 00:54:19,890
Simpson now that people didn't know any

1294
00:54:24,589 --> 00:54:21,900
better but I can understand where these

1295
00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:24,599
guys are coming from and I would hope

1296
00:54:28,790 --> 00:54:27,150
that people would step back and take a

1297
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:28,800
look and look at the number of other

1298
00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:30,930
stretcher bearers who were killed or

1299
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:34,230
maimed for life at Gallipoli death toll

1300
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:36,210
was somewhere in the region of 20 or 21

1301
00:54:41,809 --> 00:54:38,970
stretcher bearers were killed and that

1302
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:41,819
doesn't count men who the win home

1303
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:44,640
broken in body or in mind they've been

1304
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,170
overshadowed and I'd like to think that

1305
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,720
my book might help in in redressing that

1306
00:54:52,490 --> 00:54:51,119
a little bit what is one incident other

1307
00:54:54,109 --> 00:54:52,500
than the ones you have covered in your

1308
00:54:55,550 --> 00:54:54,119
books that we could just have one look

1309
00:54:57,380 --> 00:54:55,560
at and go well that's something that

1310
00:54:59,809 --> 00:54:57,390
Australian ultra see I didn't know that

1311
00:55:01,069 --> 00:54:59,819
most people wouldn't think about or they

1312
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:01,079
could talk to other people about and

1313
00:55:04,849 --> 00:55:02,730
spread the word during the Second World

1314
00:55:07,579 --> 00:55:04,859
War the Australian Army had 23 military

1315
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,589
prisons in Australia how many people

1316
00:55:10,819 --> 00:55:09,359
know about that although they weren't

1317
00:55:12,290 --> 00:55:10,829
referred to as military prisons because

1318
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:12,300
a military prison is a very specific

1319
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:14,010
sort of organization they referred to as

1320
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:15,930
detention barracks now that does for our

1321
00:55:20,569 --> 00:55:18,480
own men not just our own men under

1322
00:55:22,550 --> 00:55:20,579
agreements with the other allied

1323
00:55:24,859 --> 00:55:22,560
countries that were in Australia I know

1324
00:55:27,050 --> 00:55:24,869
that the 11th detention barrack in

1325
00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:27,060
Fremantle in the old Fremantle jail had

1326
00:55:31,309 --> 00:55:29,250
New Zealand and ducks servicemen in it

1327
00:55:32,780 --> 00:55:31,319
detention barracks in Sydney had

1328
00:55:34,819 --> 00:55:32,790
American servicemen in them until the

1329
00:55:38,510 --> 00:55:34,829
Americans set up their own system there

1330
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:38,520
were Canadians and held in detention

1331
00:55:44,059 --> 00:55:42,000
barakat wake home and so they were for

1332
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:44,069
everybody and where would you even find

1333
00:56:04,910 --> 00:56:02,660
did you see that UFO sighting that made

1334
00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:04,920
the news what did that latest study

1335
00:56:09,049 --> 00:56:06,630
about alternative treatments really say

1336
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,059
is this photo making the rounds real or

1337
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:12,000
hoax doubtful news is a unique website

1338
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:13,890
featuring news about pseudoscience the

1339
00:56:17,740 --> 00:56:16,049
paranormal anomalies and questionable

1340
00:56:20,990 --> 00:56:17,750
claims framed with the skeptical view

1341
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:21,000
come visit doleful newscom every day for

1342
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:23,460
news about cryptozoology conspiracies

1343
00:56:29,089 --> 00:56:26,609
shams scams and more follow us on

1344
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:29,099
twitter at doubtful news critical

1345
00:56:32,930 --> 00:56:30,660
thinking is essential in assessing

1346
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:32,940
today's news duffel news helps you

1347
00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:47,480
by travelpod member

1348
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:49,860
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1349
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:53,050
zone I'm come back up to the street on

1350
00:56:56,790 --> 00:56:54,880
lying ladies and gentlemen I've been

1351
00:57:00,920 --> 00:56:56,800
here all the time it's just the magic of

1352
00:57:04,380 --> 00:57:00,930
editing our things you need not know and

1353
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,390
coming up on next week's show lots more

1354
00:57:09,530 --> 00:57:06,400
from Maynard at the Australian skeptics

1355
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:09,540
National Convention and as ever that

1356
00:57:13,740 --> 00:57:11,650
mysterious element of the skeptic zone

1357
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:13,750
which means I'm never quite sure what's

1358
00:57:18,570 --> 00:57:15,090
going to be on the next episode

1359
00:57:20,310 --> 00:57:18,580
interviews insights reports all the

1360
00:57:23,970 --> 00:57:20,320
things if you've come to expect now

1361
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:23,980
before I go before I go a big special

1362
00:57:30,750 --> 00:57:26,170
shout out to Brian Dunning in the family

1363
00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:30,760
who were in Death Valley recently and in

1364
00:57:35,610 --> 00:57:32,260
a couple of jeeps there and one of the

1365
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:35,620
jeeps took a big tumble fortunately no

1366
00:57:39,810 --> 00:57:37,810
one was injured but it was a big scare

1367
00:57:43,380 --> 00:57:39,820
and horrible experience for Brian

1368
00:57:47,850 --> 00:57:43,390
Dunning in the family so my thoughts go

1369
00:57:50,220 --> 00:57:47,860
out to him and the kids and Lisa I'm so

1370
00:57:53,490 --> 00:57:50,230
pleased that they're all well but a

1371
00:57:55,940 --> 00:57:53,500
nasty experience nevertheless and if you

1372
00:57:59,490 --> 00:57:55,950
don't listen to skip toid you should

1373
00:58:01,410 --> 00:57:59,500
anyway from outside the state library

1374
00:58:07,470 --> 00:58:01,420
here in macquarie street sydney this is

1375
00:58:14,890 --> 00:58:09,880
you've been listening to the skeptic

1376
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:14,900
zone visit her website at www skeptics